Wednesday 22 August 2018

The biggest difference between 99-year leasehold HDB flats versus private properties

You don't hear owners of 99-year leasehold private properties "cry father, cry mother" that their home assets will go to ZERO one day.

Have you?

Funny right?

And we don't hear silly rhetorical questions like are we "tenants" or "owners" of our leases right? 

I'm beginning to understand why some who grew up in our HDB heartlands can't wait to move out...



  1. Who "cry father cry mother" the loudest but not living in HDB themselves? Vested interest?

    1. CW,


      You mean those opportunistic politicians/entrepreneurs who knew better but just pander to their base?

      Must say I am impressed with that young Singaporean and his japanese wife.

      Can make more than $1 million within 18 months of setting up a website just to trash talk big daddy and let bei kambings let off steam!?

      That's better than a lot of business websites out there!!!

      Unfortunately, they were behaving like the young ITE intern in my previous post. They were creating "fake news" before Trump made it well known today...

  2. What to do? Those who speculated in HDB & those who provided the tools to do so & those who look on it all with a smiling face LOL!!

    Need all kinds of characters & participants to have a good party! :)

    1. Spur,

      If the mindset don't change, most "parrots" and "bei kambings" who started their journeys towards financial independence are merely jumping from one treadmill to another that's laid out by "vested interests".

      And still got nerve to "jio" others to join them!?

      Why can't they wait till they are out of the matrix first?

  3. Hi SMOL,

    There are no difference between the categories as per my perspective.

    I do not believe in ploughing the funds on these categories. It will be more worthwhile investing the fund in the stocks. The generated dividends can pay the rent on a continuous basis.


    1. Ben,

      Ah! Sell flower say flower fragrant.

      So you are equities and dividends biased ;)

      I'm asset class agnostic. Just as long can make money, I don't mind!

      I would think property investing would be a lot "easier" than equities for most Singaporeans. Can see, touch, and kick.

      But judging by the number of people who need to attend property workshops... Maybe no?

    2. Many honestly know that they can't take property investing route. Investing and trading all can start small and let compounding works wonder.

    3. CW,

      I was trying to be polite. And you have to say it out loud...

      To start with property investing, "smelly smelly" need at least $100K to afford the 20% deposit for a private shoebox apartment, or tiny kiosk space if we more interested in commercial property.

      Unless you one of those who believed in property investments with no money down. (Just borrow the deposit $ from P2P platforms? LOL!)

      When young investors talk down property investing, we all know its a case of sour grapes... Especially when they are investing in multiples of 100 shares...

      If we can afford freehold or 999 years leasehold properties, who would bother with 99 year leases?

      I've seen quite a few stocks that went to zero; I've yet to know any examples where propety investors lost everything if you don't include scams like land banking.

      The only case I know is the 191 private terrace houses in Geyland that big daddy will take back in 2020. But you can't say the owners "lost" money right?

      It's like buying a refrigerator and using it for 15 years and saying you have "lost" money when you decide to buy a new fridge!?

    4. SMOL,

      To each of our own. People are of different characters. There are bound to be differeces in the preference of investment channels.

      As long as one is comfortable of his/her preferred choice, I think that is fine and alright.


    5. Ben,

      There's diversity at this watering hole.

      Some are herbivores, some are carnivores, some are omnivores...

      And some are ultra specialists like the panda or koala bear - very picky!

      Out in the markets we'll probably tear each other apart; over here, we just "talk male-chicken" and "poke" each other to test each other's convictions ;)

      How else to sharpen our saws?


  4. temperament,

    You are missing my "poke".

    Those who bought 99 years leasehold condos, landed terrace houses, and walkup apartments are in the SAME boat as HDB heartlanders.

    If anyone are in any doubt, just ask those 191 60 years leasehold private terrace house owners in Geyland ;)

    You mean you not concerned your shoebox apartment will become ZERO in 99 years' time?

    The big difference is those who bought private 99 years leaseholds believed in SELF-HELP.

    Long before their leases expires, they would organise their own enbloc sales. They don't need big daddy tell them what to do.

    Of course not easy. Try coaxing, persuading, and bullying your independently minded neighbours to move as one! Sometimes may even have to settle in court :(

    The truth (which most HDB sheep miss) is the MAJORITY owners of the 191 Geyland terrance houses had already sold and move out 10-20 years ago.

    Who so stupid to buy landed terrace houses that will become ZERO in 10-20 years? Well, religious organisations and businesses who needed a dorm to house their workers.

    If the price they paid is lesser than paying rent, why not?

    It was in the papers that one of those Geyland owners who have not moved out earlier REGRETTED not listening to their "influencer" in the neighbourhood who moved out and advised everyone to do the same.

    Property prices were much lower 10-20 years ago.

    Well, that's buy-and-hold mentality for you!

    It works better if your property is 999 or freehold, cannot blindly follow others.

  5. temperament,


    Yield hog you...

    And HDB 99 year leasehold rental units have better yields in % terms than private 99 year leasehold rental units!

    Repeat this often enough there will be HDB sheep who think they are the "chosen" ones!?

  6. temperament,

    Big daddy is the big winner.

    They must be missing the "upgrading" carrot (good boy, pat on head) and stick (you go to the back of the queue).

    Now just like that, we have TWO upgradings "sticks" to play with, and one nuclear old lamp change new lamp "carrot". And best of all, this carrot is a 20 years "cheque is in the mail" promise!

    Reminds me of Caocao's 望梅能止渴.


  7. Hi SMOL,

    I have yet to use these two upgrading carrots. A lot of my peers indicated that it's a waste not using them. I stick to my principle and maintain my preference in share investment as my FI route.

    You may also find it strange. I feel happy with such decision. I do not see the point in owning a flat with limited lease period though it's longer than my lifetime.

    To each of our own.


  8. Ben,

    I'm not surprised.

    Our circumstances and backgrounds are different. Hence the paths we have chosen may differ.

    Ah! You are like the HK man of leisure I met in Warsaw. Staying with mom and dad, lifestyle covered by dividends from equities.

    I'm guessing you're the only child, judging by your lack of interest in properties ;)

  9. SMOL,

    I am not the only child. I guess that I am one of the minimum few who is not interested in properties.

    I am not like HK Man Of Leisure who excelled in his career. I am just a humble peasant who does not seem to be the usual Singaporeans who like to invest in properties and start families. To me, Birth, Grow Up, NS, Find A Job, Find a Girlfriend, Get Married, Have Children, Children Grow Up, Retire, Take Care Of Grandchildren, Great-Grandchildren and finally Sell Salted Egg. I do not like such fixed route of life. I feel that life can be made a difference as per one's preference. I like simplicity. Sleep when I am tired. Do things which are of interest (such as following my fav football club &solo-travelling & observing different countries' lifestyle etc). When I don't feel like travelling, I rest low. Doing nothing and lying on bed is also my fav hobbies. A lifestyle without deadline and liberty of doing thing of my own preference is the life I want to lead.

    That being said, Iam still exploring the interesting activities which I engages after my full-time employment. That's the barrier which is holding back from pulling the trigger (submission of resignation) on my full-time employment. I come to the realisation that it's good to pull the trigger now and I can continue to find the appropriate activities during my free time(created without the full-time employment).


    1. Ben,

      I see.

      I thought you were like the HK man of leisure as you seem "destined" to get your parent's property - the rest of us have to get a place of our own ;)

      Have fun finding your own path!

      Crash got sound one!

  10. Smol,

    Thks. If there is no place to stay (which is very unlikely but don't rule this circumstance out), there's always the option of renting. I am very minimalist and can pack my stuff in one bag. Off I am ready to go in less than two hours' time.

    It's always good to have back-up plan at all times.


    1. Ben,

      Yes, most Singaporeans have forgotten the option of renting :)

      Those of us who have worked or studied overseas have tried it and it isn't as meaningless or stupid as one would have thought.

      There is a season for everything.

      Renting can make a lot more sense than buying in certain circumstances, and its not always about financial acumen.

      Renting is more suitable for those who are mobile or have a citizen of the world mindset ;)

      Just like not everyone likes to be bound by marriage.

      Why bring the cow home when there's so many udders around?

    2. Smol,

      Totally agree. A cow is like a burden. It's a big decision bringing the cow cos'there will be recupersions if the needs and possibly wants are not addressed properly. Novethless, if one has the "gao gao" capacity to address these needs and wants, then one can talk about the benefits of having the cow. The cow can produce calf as well as limitless supply of diary for one. It is sometimes like dividend yield as well as the emotional benefits. Mutual benefits.


    3. Ben,

      Hmm... You don't get access to the udders by calling cows a burden... Never pay more attention in your Literature class!

      On the contrary, I find cows so adorable that I can't bring myself to settle for one.


  11. SMOL,

    I won't call them a burden openly. It'fully entrenched in my mind. I still get the chance to access udders with sweet talk.


    1. Ben,


      Ben could be a pseudonym. And there's no surname.

      You wear a mask!

  12. Smol,

    I wear a mask because I'm "shy".



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