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Wednesday, 21 September 2011

Investing versus Trading? Nah! Ask why gurus and wizards sell seminars and courses instead!

There is an interesting discussion thread in Valuebuddies.com about Investing versus Trading:

I have no desire to engage in “academic” debates. I see it’s more a case of each side trying to fit round pegs in square holes or square pegs in round holes. Geez! We can’t we follow our NS army shooting range instruction? Own time own target, fire! Why bother the round pegs who have found their round holes? And vice versa?

There’s an interesting point that was brought up. Why traders who consistently hit 50% correct trade need to teach?

I normally don’t like to hide behind this guru says this, that wizard says that… I prefer to say what I think! But sometimes, I do refer to the source of my inspiration – not to hide behind – but to give proper accreditation. I “steal with pride”; but I don’t steal credit!

I share the reflection of the writer below. And in order not to re-invent the wheel, you may want to read why traders teach when they are already very successful in Trading (be patient and read from top to bottom for the full context and perspective):

To holier than thou “investors”, have you ever asked or questioned why successful and rock star professional investors (mutual or hedge fund managers) who are millionaires and billionaires themselves, why do they still need to manage money for others?

If you pause and think about it, it’s not so different from Trading gurus and wizards.

What? Show you proof from authoritative sources like official government sources or universities professors then you will believe? (And I thought having an education is to have independent thinking…)

OK, you got me! I bow in deference. We different wavelength. I prefer to go to the fishmonger to learn how to tell a fish is fresh or not; than to refer to an ivory tower thesis on how to tell a fish is fresh or not ;)



  1. to trade (your own money) for a living, you must must must love to trade, i mean really really like to trade.

    so much so that you probably does not interested in other things.

    you wish the market is 24/7, and you wish you can trade 24/7 without sleep. even when you are not trading, you talk and think about trading.

    thats what i think you should have in order to make it through.

  2. I think fisherman will know better "fish is fresh or not" than fishmonger as when fish reach the fishmonger really lost some freshness. Go to fisherman! :-)

  3. "love to trade" does not neccessary means love to make money trading (everyone does). its is only a small part of it.

  4. no, don't go to fisherman! be a fisherman yourself.

  5. but if you are afraid of the sea, the boat, the whether, the sharks...., just stay on land and do what you do best.

  6. It always amuses me to no end when such cock fights take place.

  7. 1) Hello CW8888,

    You are right! Forgot you like fishing too. If I fisherman, I would want to test the knowledge of my fishmonger customers. Then I know which fishmonger to "unload" my leftovers - ala Goldman Sachs. LOL!

    2) Patty,

    Ha ha! I remember you were the one who commented there are 3 bull-frogs croaking louding in LP's cbox too ;) Nice one!

    OK, better put on my maggi-mee pot on my head for protection now...

    3) Dearest Coconut,

    I think you need to get psychological help...
    Trade 24/7? You are now in the dark side... Come back into the light!

  8. a mad man will not say himself is mad, so be ware!

    why can't a market be 24/7? and when you trade, does not mean you keep jumping in and out of the market on every turn.

    life is a continue process, non stop. so should the market.

    by the way, i think i should be able to pull myself back into the light haha.

  9. The reason you cited on why successful traders teach courses could be real.

    However, we then need to ask.. Is this the real deal teaching or just another one of those Clement Chiang.

  10. Hi SMOL,

    So smart these days, go to a value investor forum to stir up sentiments, then perhaps go to another trading forum to stir up their sentiments too...then more people visit your blog, and you win!

    Hahah, nah! Ask why someone wants to blog about investing vs trading instead ;)

    On a more serious serious note, I think in general, traders are more tolerant of diversity in views. I've seen more traders being more tolerant of investing than it is the other way round. Perhaps it's due to the uncertainty of trading (actually investing is also uncertain...whatever), so traders are more predisposed to accept all conflicting theories as long as it WORKS.

    Haha, I've probably said more than I should regarding this topic...zip!

  11. LP i agree with you.

    trading is all about survival, if you hold a view or principle or some stupid rules, you are going to hit the wall very soon.

  12. in another words, today i agree with you does not mean i will agree with you tomorrow.

  13. Hi jared,

    to each his own, you can't stop ''gurus'' from teaching others to trade, there is always a huge market in trading courses.

    I've tried exposing a ''guru'' in my blog abt his useless courses coning new guys to trade in arcade cts and got cyber bullied instead. That guy is still hot on my trail in CNA market talk.

    Teaching others to trade is like the fisherman persuading the fishes in the pond to eat his bait. There are always willing fishes to eat the fisherman's bait.

    Hi coconut,

    switch off your PC sometimes and go outside(a park for eg.) and take a breather.
    You need to recharge your batteries.

  14. that is also why reading my comments are so pleasing and yet so frastrated haha.

  15. hey FX trader, not now, i'm busy buying stocks, how to take a break?

    i do agree with you, trading can't be teach.

    but please be cool to yourself, getting angry with someone is not helping you. you know what i meant.

  16. and let others do what they want, they want to teach or cheat or whatever, thats their problems. why bother?


  17. and i do agree with you, i need some break.

    i have the tendency to glue to the monitors.

  18. Hi,
    When SMOL talks to Coconut, either we enjoy their "logical nonsense" or we think we are visiting some friends in "Woodbridge"
    Either way, you will gain something if at the end you are still not insane.
    Ha! Ha!

    In order not to be insane, always keep an opened mind. Or you will be brainwashed by them.
    Ha! Ha!
    Enjoy if you can.

  19. no one will admit he is insane, no one.

    so how do we judge whether we are one? no way. it only through consenses (common) thinking that we judge ourselves.

    you know crowd behaviour?

  20. we go to the temple, we go to work 9 to 5, we get married, we follow whatever other people do and we think thats "normal" and people who don't do it are insane?

    please ask that question again.

  21. so in my opinion, there is no such thing as insane or mad. it just our view of life or what life is to us. and we have not include the "view" of the others who are also livings on this planet.

  22. "Dr" Clement Chiang was just unlucky and happened to con an ex-MP. Other Gurus have better luck than him.

  23. 1) WJ,

    It's "Dr" Clement Chiang. Maybe that's the advantage of studying at university of life... I remember asking there's such a thing as Doctorate of Options meh? People just believe what they are told...

    2) SGForexTrader,

    There are good trainers and courses. But majority are just money spinning setups. The trouble is how to tell them apart when we are "new" to the market...

    I miss your leering at women posts. Opps, I meant women leering at you. They are so funny! I also think many women look at me - only to find my fly is open! LOL!

    3) LP,

    I don't play with you liao! Hmph! You super poke me :( LOL!

    I just poking fun at "investors" who never traded but have very strong opinions - especially if they think "investors" belong to a more "atas" class. Finger in mouth.

    I do agree with you about traders. I see traders as more practical show me the money realists. No make money what's the use for all talk talk theories!?

  24. Hello Coconut,

    When I said seek psychological help, I meant to say that even the big man up stairs have to rest on the 7th day.

    Unless you are the energizer bunny that goes on and on... and on.

    Hmm... You wife must be very happy. Wink wink. LOL!

  25. CW8888,

    You can scam and steal from anyone. But never scam or steal from the mafia or triads.

    Dr Clement Chiang was lucky - he only con the light force. If he had conned the dark force...

  26. Ha ha Temperament,

    It proves once an for all I am very normal - even with one screw loose.

    How can I be not normal beside Coconut when he has no screws!?

    I pride myself to able to see things from anothe angle. Only to be humbled that Coconut can see things from another dimension!?

    But it's true. I've learnt a lot from Coconut! Next time I will say - lets see this question from another dimension :)

  27. hey by the way, do you guys know that the markets are multi-diamension?

    what will you think when i trade spread?

    what you call "that guy" who is doing psychological? whatever, be your own "that guy". fix your own screw, thats how i fix mind haha.

  28. well not to confuse, markets are closely interwine and connected. thats what i meant multi-diamension.

    one go down will cause another to go up inturn cause another to come down and so on.

    in trading you have to watch closely all the connection and find the "gap".

  29. good or not smol i don't know. but it comes quite natural for me.

    i look at things in relative way but seems like most people see things as absolute, or black and white.

    eg, i'm smart and you are stupid, i'm rich and you are poor - absolute terms.

    relative term - i'm stupid but you are worst, or i got 10k, i'm rich but you got 10m, you are richer.

    in relative term i can call anyone anything cos i'm one of them (both stupid), but not in absolute term.

  30. haha goodness me.

    so if you look from my perspective, the word stupid and smart has lost its meaning totally.

    hence there is also no such thing as insane. or those who are more unlucky end up in "woodbridge".

  31. Hi Jared

    Sometimes the old saying, "those who can do, those who can't, teach," rings true to some extent.

    Of course, there are also people who are both good at what they are doing and are able to teach what they know well to others. Such coaches and mentors are few and far between. So far, I've seen it only a few times in the toastmasters movement where the accomplished speakers share their knowledge and skills in public speaking with no reward except the satisfaction of nuturing the next generation of excellent communicators :-)

    Be well and prosper.

  32. Hello Panzer,

    Those who can do and teach are indeed rare!

    Just like in kung-fu movies, the true masters are those we have to "hunt" and "beg" so that they will "consent" to accept us as disciples - defintely not those who are very "eager" or "passionate" to share their
    "kung-fu" for a modest fee of course!


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